Von Braun:
[...]On the other side, we definitely see that the interest in this business model is heavily going up, also the interest of course in Wirecard. This is a good thing. So overall, we think that the market only now recognizes the strength of digitalization of payment, only recognizes that payment is a core element for a lot of data-driven services that will drive the market in the next 5 to 10 years. And generally spoken, this is right. And generally spoken, this is a good trend because it brings us in the ability to partner with a complete other league of companies than in the last 5 to 10 years.
Dann gabs eine Frage zu BigData / Services-Added und Wettbewerbssituation:
And the new element is definitely that beside of the transaction data that we generate; we also enrich this data with additional information together with the merchants on the customer side and on the product side. I -- we always have here a very organic strategy. We are not so much looking what, let's say, competition is doing. We're saying we're the most innovative company in this area, but we're really looking what benefits the merchant. And when we start to talk about something, we really have it in the market
Dann noch eine Frage zu den EBITDA-Margen und den Integrationskosten, beantwortet durch Ley:
And let me perhaps add some hard figures to all of you. We mentioned the EUR 4 million plus EUR 4 million advisory cost in the first half of the year. And if we come to the overall integration cost, it's EUR 2 million in the North America transaction in the first half of the year. It's EUR 150,000 or EUR 200,000 in South Africa, not relevant, and it's the EUR 0.5 million which we had as the first EBITDA contribution from the Asia Pacific transaction with Citi. And of course, this will continue. So this overall onetime-character advisory cost, they will continue to exist because we haven't finalized the transaction in Asia Pacific. But in the second half of the year, these figures will go down. So I would expect when we had EUR 4 million per quarter, the last 2 quarters, in the next 2 quarters, more than EUR 1 million, less than EUR 2 million, as a typical figure to be expected. And the integration costs will also continue. This makes me say that the overall EBITDA contribution we can expect from the Asia Pacific transaction with Citi will be more or less compensated also for the second half of the year by integration cost. And so far, this tendency continues, but on the other hand on a lower level.
+ Anmerkung durch Braun:
And in 2019 -- sorry, in 2018 following, of course, then the Asian business will, the first time, contribute also on net EBITDA level and then, of course, the margin should go up again.
Dann eine Frage zu den EBITDA Margen:
Johannes Schaller, Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division - Research Analyst [28]
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You mentioned earlier around your 2020 targets that given what you're seeing from here, things are maybe looking a little bit conservative. Should we assume that comment is mostly on transaction and revenue growth? And if you say maybe it's a bit conservative, how should we think about margin in that context? I mean, if revenues are better, is there higher drop-through? Or should we still think about that margin range you have given for 2020? And I have a quick follow-up around boon. Just wondering, I mean, there are some markets now where you have been present with boon for some time. Could you maybe give us a sense how the download and the transaction growth has progressed after the, say, initial ramp phase maybe in markets like the U.K. or other markets where you have been active since some time?
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Markus Braun, Wirecard AG - CEO, CTO & Member of Management Board [29]
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To your first question, you're absolutely right. When we say it is looking conservative, we mean transaction, volume and revenue. EBITDA margin is a relative number to revenue. So when revenue goes up, of course, the absolute number of EBITDA goes up, but the relative message, that we will be at an EBITDA margin of 32% -- 30% to 35%, of course, is our continued message. So when I'm saying it's looking more conservative, I say that EUR 190 billion as a lower bound (sic) [band] on transaction volume level is looking conservative, and the revenue of EUR 2.5 billion is looking conservative. On EBITDA margin, we stick to our guidance -- we stick to the vision of achieving an EBITDA margin of 30% to 35%, and we also stick then to the free cash flow conversion of more than 65%.
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Burkhard Ley, Wirecard AG - CFO & Member of Management Board [30]
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If I may add one aspect, like in the typical EBITDA guidance this full year, if you see a bandwidth like the 30%, 35%, our real target is not 30.1% or something like that. That real target is anywhere in the mid, and that's still what we also would say for today.
Dann gab es noch eine Frage hinsichtlich der Integrationskosten von Singapur und Hongkong - ich weiß nicht, wo ich kürzen soll, daher der volle Auszug. Wird sich also erst beginnend in 2018 und dann natürlich in den späteren Jahren richtig lohnen, aber umso besser, dann haben wir auch noch in den nächsten Jahren richtige Wachstumstreiber :)
I have 3 questions, if I could. Firstly, can you comment a bit on how big Singapore and Hong Kong, the places where the acquisition in APAC closed, how big they were as a proportion of the total portfolio you're acquiring in the region? And secondly, a housekeeping question for Burkhard. Can you give us the total amount that needs to be paid out in acquisitions now, both performance related and nonperformance related in the third quarter and over the next few years? And finally, I noticed in your financials, you had about EUR 4 million from release of provisions and accruals and you had about EUR 1.5 million in -- from reversal of bad debt. That's nearly 3% of your EBITDA in the first half of the year. Can you give us some color on what drove this? What bad debts and accruals these were?
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Burkhard Ley, Wirecard AG - CFO & Member of Management Board [34]
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Okay. Yes, let me try to give a bit more color around this transaction, Citi Asia Pacific. Of course, please respect I cannot comment exact figures because we are in our half NDA but, nevertheless, I understand your question precisely. So if we take the just 2 weeks in Singapore or Hong Kong that's, of course, not representative for the whole year, and please do not challenge me if the figure I am mentioning now are not completely achieved in the rest of the year because that's today's estimation. But I wouldn't be surprised if we end with a revenue in the second half of the year, including the EUR 3 million we had, of anywhere around USD 60 million or a bit more and then we end with an EBITDA before integration cost anywhere in the area of EUR 3 million plus, which as said before will be completely compensated by the integration cost we have. So the clear message is the overall EBITDA from that transaction in 2017 will be anywhere around 0. With regard to the purchase price, again, I cannot mention precise figures, but to give you a rough understanding, there were estimations that the overall purchase price is anywhere in the area of USD 200 million, and Markus and me said that's a quite good estimation for the overall comparement. That's a mixture between the different countries, where Singapore and Hong Kong are and were relevant. And so far, you may have seen that we paid, roughly spoken, USD 60 million before end of Q2, and I would expect a similar amount in the second half of the year to be paid. The rest is 2018, 2019, and in so far, has to be anywhere in the area of USD 50 million or a bit lower than USD 50 million per year to achieve the overall around USD 200 million. Then the year 2018 will be a year of ramping up the business. We will have the last closing at the end of June. And in so far, 2018 will lead to a revenue, which is anywhere in the area above USD 150 million, USD 160 million perhaps, USD 170 million from today's perspective. Again, we will give updates to you in all the quarters, but that's today's estimation. And the EBITDA, we'll achieve the whole USD 20 million beginning in the time frame 1st of July 2018 to 30th of June 2019. And in so far in the calendar year 2018, you will see a figure, which is between -- which might be anywhere in the area EUR 10 million to EUR 12 million from today's expectation, but we'll also see some additional integration cost. So that's a rough understanding of the dimension. And of course, some parts of the payout I mentioned specifically those in 2018 and 2019 have a variable and success-dependent character. With regard to the earnouts, I mentioned before that there was an earnout which was paid just after the reported 30th of June, which was a EUR 50 million payment with regards to India. This was the biggest amount we still had in the other liabilities. And in so far, the residual amount we, in the maximum, have to pay outside the transaction Citi aspect, which I mentioned is max -- it is...
Und dann noch eine Frage zu den Margen, beatnwrtoet durch Braun:
Yes, so let me -- you're absolutely exact. We totally stick to today's guidance, but I would agree that even today's guidance includes conservative elements.
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