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Bertwin:

Der Verlauf heute wieder zum kotzen

 
15.10.09 16:58
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Rappelzappel:

Warum

 
15.10.09 16:59
in usa gerade wieder bei +-0 :-)
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jawanse:

Gäääääääähhhhhhhhnn

 
15.10.09 17:00
Antworten
Bertwin:

Davon können wir heute träumen

 
15.10.09 17:04
Antworten
VanDelft:

Zahlenspiele aus Ihub:

 
15.10.09 17:22
Zahlenspiele aus Ihub:

Posted by: JimsZ    Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:16:22 AM  
In reply to: None  Post # of 108522    

Look people...

JPM has been hinting in their 10 filings how much WMB has helped them. Do you really thing JPM feels they will not be paying anything for this in the long run? The FDIC gave them 500 million toward attorney fees, why not use it and hope for WMI's attorneys to really screw up?

Why would they state how much $$$ they made from WMB acquisiton? Because they are setting the stage for payback.

Figuring JPM states "Extraordinary gain could be .50/share in 2009 due to WMB". If you think about it, JPM has around 4.7 billion shares @ .50/share! If you look at this compared to WMI's 1.7 billion shares that's around $1.55/share at a minimum.

I don't think we will come out of here with $24/share, but I do believe we will come out of here with at least a 10-20 bagger from current levels!


GO WAMU
Antworten
faster:

achtet auf die anleihen

 
15.10.09 17:28
die wmi junior bonds sind gestern schon wieder gestiegen, von im mittel 70,5 auf 72,5, und der beste wert hat 74,5% erreicht, der höchste, denn ich jemals für wmi jun. gesehen habe. schön langsam erreicht dieses grinsen auf meinem gesicht wieder die breite vom april und september.

cxa.marketwatch.com/finra/BondCenter/...yMin=&MaturityMax=

zum vergleich: lehman ligen bei 17% für die senior und 12% für die junior bonds. selbst wells fargo hat bei den senior bonds teilweise niedrigere werte als wmi.
Antworten
kleber1:

faster

 
15.10.09 17:37
Lies mal bitte deine Post.
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Gelöschter Beitrag. Einblenden »
#9608

enis21:

@ van..apropos zahlenspielchen....

 
15.10.09 17:58
WMI lawsuits against JPM summary $12 bet combo!

From this filing in Delaware bankruptcy court, 5/29/09:
www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229090529000000000010.pdf



1st CC, p114: Capital contributions: avoidance and recovery, ~$6.5B, fraudulent transfer

2nd CC, p115: Capital contributions: avoidance and recovery, ~$6.5B

3rd CC, p116: Trust securities: ~$4B, avoidance and recovery

4th CC, p117: Trust securities: ~$4B, avoidance and recovery

5th CC, p118: Trust securities: ~$4B, avoidance and recovery

6th CC, p119: Trust securities: ~$4B, avoidance and recovery

7th CC, p120: Trust securities: ~$4B, declaratory judgment that securities are property of Estate

8th CC, p121: Preferential transfers: avoidance and recovery

9th CC, p122: Preferential transfers: avoidance and recovery

10th CC, p123: Fraudulent transfer: P&A Transaction is avoidable as a F.T.

11th CC, p124: Disallowance of claims by JPM

12th CC, p125: Declaratory judgement on all "Disputed Assets" as property of Estate

13th CC, p126: Turnover of intercompany amounts due

14th CC, p126: Unjust enrichment claim

**15th CC, p126: Trademark infringement

**16th CC, p128: Trademark infringement (common law)

**17th CC, p128: Patent infringement

**18th CC, p130: Federal copyright infringement

(**Note the jury trials demanded for 15-18)
------------------------------

Valuation of WMI amended counterclaims against JPM, filed 9/11/09, Delaware Bankruptcy Court:
www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229090914000000000003.pdf

A. Capital Contributions: by WMI to WMB (JPM)
-- constructive fraudulent transfers
-- value $6.5B

B. Trust Securities: WMI owns but value went to WMB (JPM)
-- constructive fraudulent transfers
-- value $4.0B

C. Other transfers: by WMI to WMB, fsb, or for benefit of WMB (JPM)
-- constructive fraudulent transfers
-- value $3.4B

D. WMI received less than reasonably equivalent value for WMB when sold to JPM
-- unliquidated - no value specified
-- catch-all for total value not included in other claims?

E. Intercompany Accounts: owed by WMB (JPM) to WMI (does NOT include $4B cash in DDA)
-- 177M + 22M + 490M
-- value $0.7B

F. JPM unauthorized, intentional, and infringing use of WMI intellectual property
-- trademarks/service marks, patents, copyrights
-- value of WAMU brand alone $6.0B

-------------------------------------------------- -------
TOTAL value = $20.6 billion + unliquidated claims


$12+ is a safe bet. Most of the legal analyst's both boards put it at around $24/s. The reasoning goes like this:

1. Book value of WMI on June of '08 was $26B see their 10Q.

2. Aug. '08 TPG put in almost $8B. Capital infusion. It was originally preferred stock but was converted to commons. This is what Bondermann and the Texas lawsuit is about.

3. Independent auditors have placed a book value on WMI of around $52B.

4. In a court case damages could run as high as 3X book value if it goes the distance to a jury trial.

5. Our legal analyst's both boards think Weil would ask a minimum, 2X book value for a settlement.

6. So, 2X book value at low number $26B would equal $52B settlement money. Subtract $8B liabilities, $4B P's & H's (bonds are part of WAMU Bank not WMI so not accountable here).
That leaves $40B for the commons. $40B/1.7B O/S equals $23.5/s. End of story.
An der Börse sind 2 mal 2 niemals 4, sondern 5 minus 1.
Man muß nur die Nerven haben, das minus 1 auszuhalten.
Antworten
VanDelft:

Danke Enis,

 
15.10.09 18:25
ich kenn das Posting zwar schon, aber an Tagen wie heute liest man sowas gern mal wieder.....;-))...ich weiß garnicht warum, aber solche Zahlen sind einem ja immer sofort dermaßen sympathisch.....)))

Naja, aber im Ernst: sind natürlich einige "Wackelpositionen" drin und wohl auch Forderungen gegen WMI "vergessen". Es gibt ja leider nicht nur das best case scenario.
Antworten
zwibiwibi:

ein alter schulfreund...

 
15.10.09 19:01
von mir aus LA wurde mit dieser aktie millionär!
finance.yahoo.com/...ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
Antworten
faster:

wmi anleihen

2
15.10.09 19:02
gestern und heute (bis jetzt) wurden in den usa für 25,8 mio dollar wmi senior und junior anleihen gehandelt.
dies entspricht etwa 116 mio stück wamuq, und mit steigenden preisen.
sogar in die junkbonds der wmb wurden 5,7 mio dollar gesteckt (etwas mehr als in die wamuq), entspricht etwa 26 mio wamuq.
nachtigal, ik hör dir trapsen.
Antworten
enis21:

aus w:o ! interessant....

2
15.10.09 19:21
Regulation F: Capital Ratios

J.P. Morgan Bank, National Association

The following information is provided to assist you in complying with Regulation F requirements.

As of June 30, 2009:

Tier 1 - Risk Based Capital Ratio 9.31%
Total Risk-Based Capital Ratio 13.08%
Leverage Ratio 6.17%


As of March 31, 2008:

Tier 1 - Risk Based Capital Ratio 9.02%
Total Risk-Based Capital Ratio 12.84%
Leverage Ratio 6.08%


As of December 31, 2008:

Tier 1 - Risk Based Capital Ratio 8.73%
Total Risk-Based Capital Ratio 12.48%
Leverage Ratio 5.90%


As of September 30, 2008:

Tier 1 - Risk Based Capital Ratio 7.91%
Total Risk-Based Capital Ratio 11.44%
Leverage Ratio 7.27%


As of June 30, 2008:

Tier 1 - Risk Based Capital Ratio 8.20%
Total Risk-Based Capital Ratio 11.98%
Leverage Ratio 6.08%


As of March 31, 2008:

Tier 1 - Risk Based Capital Ratio 8.21%
Total Risk-Based Capital Ratio 11.97%
Leverage Ratio 6.09%

www.jpmorgan.com/tss/General/...F_Capital_Ratios/1102380208957


~ 8.2% tier ratio Q1, Q2 2008.
Q3 2008 7.91% to big to fail (6% ist die grenze), deshalb wamu assets einverleibt
Q4 2008 nach wamu "diebstahl" 8.73%!!!

2009 Q1 über die 9%, und dann weiter hoch Q2 9.31%



Ich kann euch mein persönliches Brief und Siegel geben, dass JPM den Kaufpreis nachbessern wird, nur geht das nicht so schnell, erstmal müssen einige vorbereitungen gemacht werden.
An der Börse sind 2 mal 2 niemals 4, sondern 5 minus 1.
Man muß nur die Nerven haben, das minus 1 auszuhalten.
Antworten
enis21:

.........

2
15.10.09 19:34
I am going to lay out my take on Oct 22nd summary judgement hearing and you can decide on your own what you think here. Mordicai and Ram if you could respond, that would be great.
THJMW’s ruling against Divesture of Jurisdiction. From Court transcripts.
THJMW:
Although I’m not quite sure what I’m ruling on, there is no motion before me. There’s a notice of a divestiture, but I take it the parties are asking me whether the adversary proceeding will proceed, and in my opinion, yes, it will proceed. It is clear that the appeal of the denial of a motion to dismiss or the denial of a motion to stay a proceeding is not appealable. The only exception to that that has been cited is the collateral order doctrine.
The Supreme Court has made it clear that this is a narrow exception, and the Supreme Court held in Lauro Lines that it
does not apply to issues of where a party can be sued as
opposed to whether a party can be sued. Praxis is not
applicable. It dealt with whether a party can be sued, i.e.,
whether a 90-day stay applied or a 45-day stay applied, not
to an issue of where a party can be sued. So it just is not
applicable to this case. The fact that JPMC has continued to
appear before me and to continue to proceed with this
adversary for the past four months, I think evidences an
acknowledgment that really their position is frivolous. Need
I say it, I do say it, the argument is frivolous that the
collateral order doctrine applies.

JPM lawyer (Sacks)stated in his argument(That’s
why the impact on the lower court is, you review it simply to
determine if the appeal is frivolous and as the Third Circuit
said, You’re inquiry must be one for frivolousness, and you

either need to recognize the divestiture or find by written
findings that the appeal is one that’s frivolous, Your Honor.)

THJMW
With respect to the merits of the appeal, I’ve already made my ruling on that numerous times. I need not issue it again. I think the decision of JPMC that I do not have jurisdiction is frivolous. The adversary proceedings will proceed until and
unless the Appellate Court decides otherwise, but they need
not be held up pending that appeal.
MR. ELSBERG: Your Honor, if I might, I was just
hoping that I could raise the issue of scheduling a hearing
date for the summary judgment motion on the deposit issue,
and we would propose, if it works for you.
Move to Summary Judgement.

From May 22nd Brief
JPM Morgan has refused to pay the debtors more than 4 billion in deposits that belong to them, thereby depriving the bankruptcy estates of one of their most valuable assets. As there is no legal or factual justification of why JPMC refuses to pay, it appears that JPMC is holding onto these deposits for as long as it can so it can unjustly profit from the use of the capital. This is a palpably improper basis for depriving the debtors (and their creditors)of more than 4 billion that rightfully belongs to their estates and plaintiffs have brought this motion to promptly secure the return of their funds. Moreover because the specific issue of the debtors rights to these monies is clear and indisputable, the debtors respectfully move for summary judgement to obtain an order requiring JPMC immediately to turn over those monies to the debtors so they can be turned over to the estates and be distributed in connection with the Chap 11 BK reorg plan.
What evidence needs to be produced for a judge to rule in the plaintiffs favor.

A. Summary Judgment Standard
Under Rule 56 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, summary judgment is appropriate if the pleadings, depositions, answers to interrogatories and admissions on file, together with the affidavits, if any, show that there is no genuine issue as to any material fact and that the moving party is entitled to judgment as a matter of law. (Logan Deposition) See Fed. R. Civ. P. 56(c). Material facts are those that “might affect the outcome of the suit under the governing law.” Anderson v. Liberty Lobby, Inc., 477 U.S. 242, 248 (1986).
325 (D.C. Cir. 1989).

IMHo>>Maybe, what the court has before them is
1. Deposit account statements issued from JPMC that says you have this much money in the account.
2. Logan deposed on the transferring and the amount of monies transferred and where it came from. Logan stating it was Standard Operating procedure and proper paperwork was executed, the account numbers were wrong. Logan testifying that the monies did in fact belong to the parent and were part of the moving of the parents funds. Mistake was corrected as sson as it was noticed.
3. No person at JPMC disputes this. Only their lawyers, who tried to hide behind the FDI act, which the court rejected, essentially throwing out the premise for their argument. Logan still works for JPM.
From WMI’s answer to JPM’s to turnover action.
On May22, 2009 the debtors filed their answer to JPMC’s complaint including 18 counter-claims (the counter-claims) asserting among other things the BK code’s avoidance provisions and under state law as inc by the BK code for avoidance of more than 10 BIL in preferential and fraudulent prepetition transfers of the debtors assets to WMB that were subsequently transferred to JPMC.
In the turnover action the debtors assert an UNQUESTIONABLE right to approx 4 Bil in deposits formerly held at WMB and WMBfsb demanding payment of those funds to the debtors estates.(The key word is UNQUESTIONABLE)

IMHO. In our case, what had to be proved is did the money that was deposited into the accounts legally belong to the WMI. If it does and it has been established that JPMC has continued to confirm this by sending bank account statements (every month) to the plaintiffs. The plaintiffs were told by JPM that the money did belong to them in Oct 2008 and it was not disputed then. The court should rule that the money put into the deposit accounts by a preponderance of the evidence did belong to WMI. JPM believed it did belong to WMI because it sent deposit account balance statements to them. The deposit account statements listed the amounts in each account and JPM assumed all deposit liabilities (as part of the legality of the P&A agreement [or they could just ask THJMW to void the P&A] ) and this was all that was needed to establish validity of the accounts and therefore the turnover action would have to go in favor of the plaintiffs (June Omnibus).
In the summary judgement the court has to determine if the deposits belong to the plaintiffs, the deposition by Doreen Logan in favor of WMI and no deposition in favor of JPM by any of its other employees should help the court determine validity and rule in WMI’s favor of Summary Judgement and instruct JPM to return the monies to the estate. JPM originally filed its briefs using a precedent of the FDI act to hide behind the court rejected that and now in all briefs since then, JPM has not referenced the FDI act that they originally filed as the reason the court could not decide this. JPM has had their motions to dismiss the adversary proceedings denied, the plaintiffs have filed their own adversary proceeding that references their 18 counter-claims (listed in the stick post up above) and have been granted the right by the court for them to be heard. One of the claims is the turnover action and subsequent summary judgement. I have a feeling Logan’s deposition was very favorable to the plaintiffs, this is why JPM moved to strike part of it (which THJMW denied) because JPM cannot establish any evidence supporting their statements other than the FDIC says “It’s ours!” WMI has put the money on their MOR’s and is therefore figuring it in.

IMHO…THJMW should rule in our favor. I cannot wait to hear her ruling on Oct 22nd. .
investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=42552524
An der Börse sind 2 mal 2 niemals 4, sondern 5 minus 1.
Man muß nur die Nerven haben, das minus 1 auszuhalten.
Antworten
faster:

der wert der wmi

 
15.10.09 19:50
ich wurde heute per boardmail nach den chancen der wamuq (und anderer wmi aktien) gefragt. dabei habe ich auch die forderungen gegen die wmi angesprochen, die beim konkursgericht angemeldet wurden. ein beispiel, das heute wieder zurückgezogen wurde, findet ihr unter diesem link:

www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229091015000000000002.pdf

auf seite 2 ein typisches formular für das konkursgericht
auf seite 9 den vertrag mit der wamu bank, die jetzt bei der fdic ist.

der anspruch war gegen die wamu bank, die jetzt bei der fdic ist, und daher gegen das falsche unternehmen gerichtet. es werden noch viele dieser ansprüche entweder zurückgezogen oder abgelehnt werden (etwa 63 von 64 mrd, nach meiner schätzung, aber rechnet selber nach, ihr wisst, wo ihr die daten findet).
Antworten
VanDelft:

Fortsetzung von Enis´s Posting 9613:

 
15.10.09 19:50
Weiterführende Gedanken aus WO:

"..... Es ist auch ziemlich eindeutig, dass JPM eine korrekte Übernahme damals und derzeit sich noch nicht leisten konnte/kann, denn dann würden sie vermutlich unter die 6% grenze kommen, und müssten selbst ch11 anmelden! und dann kommt wieder die ausrede to big to fail!
bleibt geschmeidig, wird schon werden.
nicht ob, sondern wann, wieviel und was wkn 893906 halter bekommen ist hier die frage......"

Wobei dann die Frage ist, warum sich JPM die paar zusätzlich dafür benötigten Mrd. zu dem in Anspruch genommenen 25-Mrd-Tarp-Paket nicht auch noch geholt hat. Wäre ja nicht aufgefallen !?

Meinungen dazu ?
Antworten
enis21:

dazu weite van delft ...

 
15.10.09 19:54
TPG spielt da eine wichtige Rolle, oder warum engagiert man tage vorher die besten BK Anwälte? Und warum gibt es kein Schreiben von denen commons handeln zu dürfen, sprich verkaufen? warum hat sich american funds, die vermutlich mit jpm in engen kontakt stehen, fast in allen WMI Papieren nach der seizure positioniert!
Also für mich gibt es derzeit nur eine erklärung: man geht von einer korrektur aus !
An der Börse sind 2 mal 2 niemals 4, sondern 5 minus 1.
Man muß nur die Nerven haben, das minus 1 auszuhalten.
Antworten
VanDelft:

Fortsetzung Nr. 2:

 
15.10.09 19:56
weiterführend aus WO:

".....die kommen nicht drum herum  
TPG spielt da eine wichtige Rolle, oder warum engagiert man tage vorher die besten BK Anwälte? Und warum gibt es kein Schreiben von denen commons handeln zu dürfen, sprich verkaufen? warum hat sich american funds, die vermutlich mit jpm in engen kontakt stehen, fast in allen WMI Papieren nach der seizure positioniert!
Also für mich gibt es derzeit nur eine erklärung: man geht von einer korrektur aus !...."

Ähnliche Argumentation, wie hier auch schon gepostet.
Antworten
enis21:

so ist es van deflt ..

 
15.10.09 19:56
An der Börse sind 2 mal 2 niemals 4, sondern 5 minus 1.
Man muß nur die Nerven haben, das minus 1 auszuhalten.
Antworten
VanDelft:

@ Enis ;-))

 
15.10.09 19:57
Jetzt bin ich schon nicht mehr sauer, sondern stinksauer !!! Schon wieder ne Minute früher....;-)))))
Antworten
enis21:

im eifer des gefechts !

 
15.10.09 20:00
vielleicht sollte ich mich faster nennen .. höhöhööhöh   ;-))))

man sieht aber das die interessanten sachen wirklich posting-würdig sind !!!
An der Börse sind 2 mal 2 niemals 4, sondern 5 minus 1.
Man muß nur die Nerven haben, das minus 1 auszuhalten.
Antworten
jawanse:

Gäääääääähhhhhhhhnn

 
15.10.09 20:16
oder tut sich am Kurs was ?
Antworten
faster:

marktdaten

 
15.10.09 20:19
ich habe eher etwas für die tageshändler und zum vergleich mit den volumen der bonds.

www.otcbb.com/asp/...h=9-1-2009&IMAGE1.x=18&IMAGE1.y=8

die gehandelten stück der wamuq zugeordnet zu den händlern. ihr werdet feststellen, dass zwei unternehmen um die 66% gehandelt haben. kurspflege leichtgemacht.

ausserdem ganz interresant, dass das ganze jahr insgesamt 1,3 mrd wamuq gehandelt wurden, davon im september 552 mio. schöner anstieg, oder?
Antworten
faster:

der hoffentlich funktionierende link

 
15.10.09 20:20
www.otcbb.com/asp/...h=9-1-2009&IMAGE1.x=18&IMAGE1.y=8
Antworten
faster:

der link zum selberbauen

 
15.10.09 20:22
www .otcbb.com/asp/tradeact_mv.asp?SearchBy=issue&Issue=wamuq&SortBy=volume&Month=9-1-2009&IMAGE1.x=1 7&IMAGE1.y=10

nehmt die leerstelle hinter den www heraus und kopiert in in euer browserfeld.
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