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Zitat William48:
To tdmd: Your misgivings are understandable, however, SG must move forward in the reality it now finds itself within, which at the moment, is not too bad, as the ONLY thing that now stands between us and pay-day is the puny $160M asset analysis of Blackstone. Think about it. There's absolutely NOTHING else in the way! A $32 BILLION (or greater) wave is hurtling toward a $160 MILLION barrier. What's going to give, I ask you?
Rosen’s strategy has completely run out of gas, due to the fact that it was never intended to be in play for such an extended period of time. Those who crafted it envisioned this BK ending in the latter part of 2010 after the submission of one DS and its accompanying Plan (or as Rosen proudly announced to a befuddled Venable more than a year ago: "... that's right, like a hand in a glove.")
ALL of that has been laid to waste, DESPITE the many misgivings you so accurately indicate
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Zitat tdmd:
i understand all your points. Although they make perfect sense to me, to everyone here on this board, and to a 3rd grader, the fact of the matter is this judge is turning a blind eye to it.
Even though we see 32 billion waiting to waterfall us into the promised land, the judge doesn't seem to see it that way. And at the end of the day, we're at her mercy...unless the appeals process puts her in her place.
Look, I absolutely agree with everything everyone of the longs have been saying. But in this BK, we are up against way too many forces.
All I want to say is, DROP THE NUKE and ANNIHILATE. no more pussyfooting. No more "we think we're worth 30 billion" and then not bringing PJS. Why not leave drop the valuation and introduce our own POR with all the numbers laid out, straight facts, no ifs ands or buts. Why not file something like this and motion the court to put BR in jail for obvious BK fraud and get the entire WGM and Quinn team off this case with clawbacks in fees. I mean imagine if SG did this right now right at this moment. It would have damning effect on anyone that would try to pull something like this again, let alone show that SG is no one to mess with.
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Zitat Fish:
It's hard to file a competing POR when the Debtors have been hiding and misrepresenting assets at every turn. They have been stonewalling PSJ since "day one" and now Rosen wants PSJ's numbers. HA!
No way.. SG knows what they are doing, they have a great local counsel in AG and we are in good hands. SO everyone step back, take a deep breath and RELAX.. Time will tell soon enough..
~Don~
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Zitat tdmd :
Don,
If it's hard to file a competing POR since PJS has been stonewalled, then what you're saying is we don't have the info or ammunition as BR has stated during the last hearing.
I say we do have the information to file a competing POR. As a matter of fact, I would go out on a limb and just file it with as much evidence as we have currently. Are we waiting for another Nate Thoma to buy us more time? That would make me worry even more as to our strategy if this was the case.
I say FIRE AWAY and FIRE AWAY HARD.
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Zitat Mik3k:
How can the EC (or any group) file a competing POR without their own global agreement with JPM and the FDIC?
I think they have to nuke Rosen's POR before JPM and the FDIC would be willing to sit down and work out a new global agreement with the EC.
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Zitat GO4AWILDRIDE:
MIK
Why do you think that a GSA is required?
All that is needed is a DS and a POR to get out of BK.
Then the EC goes after JPIG & FDICK in DC for the rest of the story as Paul Harvey used to say!!!!
The GSA is only created by ROSENCRAP to protect his real clients JPIG & FDICK
GO WAMMMMUUUU
GO SUSMAN
GO EC
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Zitat Catz:
Go4, a resolution of open issues is required for any POR. That's why it's called a "Plan" of reorganization. You can't ignore claims against the estate.
For a valid DS/POR, a resolution of open issues is required. Either by successful litigation of open issues -- such as the bogus claims by FDIC and JPM against the estate....
or, in the alternative, a GSA (Global Settlement Agreement) that documents how those claims will be settled, traded, etc away.
So, since we aren't seeing progress by the debtors at litigating the issues away, one can't ignore that those claims exist.
Without a "settlement agreement" between the EC and JPM, FDIC for those 'claims', a competitive POR has to treat those claims as 'valid' and provide for how they would be paid off.
This means that the current GSA is superior in that those claims are 'settled', and a competing GSA would be inferior because of the additional 'cash' necessary to pay off those claims as if they were valid.
As you stated, "All that is needed is a DS and POR to get out of BK" -- while technically true, you still need a viable POR that addresses how the claims against the estate will be resolved.
And since there is no other agreement than the current GSA, any competing POR would either have to use it as a basis, or come up with it's own negotiations (and separate 'settlement agreement') with the parties.
And, of course, there's no reason at this time for either the FDIC or JPM to give in to a separate 'settlement agreement'.
You can't just throw up a POR with a hypothetical "we'll litigate this, or JPM can give in here, and FDIC give in there" -- doesn't work that way. You can't assume in a POR that some future agreement will be reached, or some future litigation will be successful. You have to have a PLAN to reorganize with the claims on the table, or settlement agreements in place.
...Catz
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Zitat GO4AWILDRIDE:
CATZ
Do both JPIG & FDICK have claims against WMI that are on record?
I was under the impression that there are only threats of claims but no claims have been filed.
GO WAMMMMUUUU
GO SUSMAN
GO EC
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Zitat Catz:
Yes, they both do.
I don't remember the exact dollar amount, but the court mentioned them in the past POR denial. It's a huge amount.
In fact, as I remember, one of them was its own voting 'class' -- created just for that bizarre purpose -- 'they' were allowed to conditionally vote -- based on whether or not their 'class' was to be recognized, etc.
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Zitat William48:
You've raised a very interesting subject Catz. I think that Judge Walrath views the GSA as being the only available mechanism to end this BK. However, she's shown wide flexibility with respect to the ultimate value of WMI2. My question to you: is there any scenario in which PIERS, preferreds and common can receive ANY payout while keeping WMI's claims against JPM and FDIC intact?
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Zitat Catz:
I don't think so.
I think one of those claims was for like $54b? Don't quote me. It was a huge number.
{Catz should know better than to do 'numbers' and stick to theoretical and mechanics stuff... but in this case, I'll make an exception and hope I'm close to being right}
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Zitatende
MfG.L:)
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens"
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