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Wamu WKN 893906 News !

Beiträge: 198.955
Zugriffe: 20.445.438 / Heute: 57
Mr. Cooper Group. 71,68 $ +0,56% Perf. seit Threadbeginn:   +201,08%
 
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! NeverSurrender
NeverSurrend.:

hier...

 
26.08.11 15:48
ist ja was los heute. Past gut zum momentanen Kursverlauf :-)
Habt ihr alle hitzefrei? ;-)

Na gut, dann geh ich mich auch mal abkühlen.

neversurrender

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Wamu WKN 893906 News ! herrscher2
herrscher2:

@ KA

 
26.08.11 15:48

 

So, mein letztes Wort in unserem Disput an Dich (hoffentlich kommt dann auch das Letzte von Dir an mich)

Warum Du mir jetzt STARKE unterjubeln willst weiss ich nicht, aber hier sind die letzten Worte des Hearings:

 

Übersetzung auf w:o (Originaltext)

------------------------------------Barr liest etwas vorbereitetes vor...meine Aufmerksamkeit läßt langsam nach...sie sagt dass sie als EC-Mitglied nicht traden durfte, während sie nonpublic Information hatte. Während der 10 Monate die sie dabei war, hätte sie mit Erstaunen die großen Schwankungen von preferred und commons mitangesehen. Dadurch hätte sie Geld verloren. Währenddessen hätten andere Gewinne gemacht.

Sie will dafür eine Kompensation.

Barr sagt dass viele der Parteien die heute hier sind, und dafür bezahlt werden, mit Equities Interessen nichts am Hut haben.

01:13 Uhr. Sie ist fertig. (pro se shareholders: +18 Minuten).

Walrath sagt dass das was sie heute gehört hat, nicht irgendwie der Entscheidung näherbringt.

01:14 Uhr. ENDE. Warten war umsonst.--------------------------------------------

 

Also: Was hat Walrath abschliessend gesagt  ???????? Oder willst Du auch andere user der Manipulation bezichtigen ??????

Wamu WKN 893906 News ! NeverSurrender
NeverSurrend.:

@herrscher #160179

 
26.08.11 15:53

Hallo,    

Walrath sagt dass das was sie heute gehört hat, nicht irgendwie der Entscheidung näherbringt.

Ein Zitat von Pfandbrief aus w:o.

Ein (gut gemeinter) Tip:

Lies mal #159937 hier.

So,

aber jetzt:

Abkühlung (von innen, mit Bier)

Grüße,

neversurrender

 

Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Pjöngjang
Pjöngjang:

Wampq (Vorzüge)

29
26.08.11 15:59
Jetzt heißt es, Augen zu und durch!!!.
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! 433555
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Bamberger69
Bamberger69:

Hearing Reihenfolge

32
26.08.11 16:04
Im Audio nach etwa 3 Minuten ist Parker Folse nach Rosen dran.

Rosen hat vorgeschlagen das sein Ablaufplan durchgefuehrt wird.

Parker Folse findet dies jedoch nicht fair und reasonable weil die SNH zum Schluss dran kommen.

Nach etwa 7 Minuten fordert Steinberg das die letzten 15 Minuten fuer die Debtors nicht duerchgefuehrt werden, sondern wenn, dann fuer alle Parteien.

Danach kommt der Aurelius Anwalt Eckstein und erlaeutert Mary warum der Ablaufplan so gestaltet wurde. Naemlich die Geschichte von Anfang an darzustellen, ausserdem sagt er das die HF immer noch in der Position sind sich zu verteidigen und deshalb vor den anderen drankommen sollten.

Dann kommt Rosen wieder zu Wort und sagt man muesse stramm sprechen um alles in 30 Minuten zu sagen. Danach sagt Rosen noch das er happy waere wenn sie diesen Tag im Court gar nicht haetten. Dann unterbricht ihn Mary und sagt: Then you can sit down! Anschliessend Gelaechter im Saal

Dann urteilt Mary ueber die Reihenfolge::

Sie will nicht das sich alle nochmals wiederholen.
Sie will das sich die Leute auf die wesentlichen Dinge beziehen
Dann sagt Mary:
I will require the SNH the first out because they are on the side who supporting the plan who is written. So I think they have to put their argument forward.

Sie will also die SNH als erste hoeren weil sie den POR unterstuetzen.
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! rezo25
rezo25:

Moin Leute..

5
26.08.11 16:42
noch mal eine woche hinter uns...mal schauen was die neue woche bringt, für Rosen mit Sicjherheit mehr unruhe als für uns;)
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! fatmamen
fatmamen:

verkaufen

21
26.08.11 16:43
verkaufen sollen alle die ihre nerven nicht in den zaum halten können.
einfach geld verdienen gibt es nicht.
einfach aussitzen ist wohl möglich ,um anschließend den reibach zu machen.
traden kann jeder versuchen(hier bei wamu ist es zur zeit nichts für mich).
nur die angst wird jetzt umgehen.warum ,weshalb und die mm's könnt ihr euch sparen,es wird einfach passieren.jetzt hat die große show begonnen worauf wir sehnsüchtig gewartet haben,es wurde endlich tacheles geredet.
ES KAM FAST IMMER ANDERS ALS WIR DACHTEN UND ES WIRD WIEDER ANDERS KOMMEN ALS WIR VERMUTEN!!!!DIESES MAL WIRKLICHER POSITIVER .

ich bin ein wamufreak der nie aufgeben wird bis die story endgültig vorbei sein sollte(woran ich nicht glaube bevor wir eine abfindung bekommen werden)
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! body1
body1:

The GSA is dead on so many levels

18
26.08.11 16:47
Yahoo: investorwad

ANICO - She CANNOT "settle" or extinguish business tort claims (pre deeds) in the GSA because ANICO won their appeal in DC. Don't forget that THJMW referenced ANICO in her last opinion by more or less saying, "See, these claims have no merit and little chance of success." Minimally, she would have to order the GSA parties to remove business tort claims from the GSA if she wants it to stay alive.

IT/Tainted Negotiations - How this GSA was "negotiated" was so agregious by the SNs AND Debtor that even THJMW was more than likely caught off guard with all that came to light. The solid proof of how tainted the negotiation process was is on the record of the case. If she really wanted to keep this GSA alive, there are no "tweaks" to the language that can address this. The JPM attorney Wednesday begged the court to not punish the innocents (JPM/FDIC) because of the wrongdoing of the SNs. The problems are JPM knew what was going on and it wasn't just the SNs tainting the process. The Debtors are equally guilty of tainting the process. JPM/FDIC/Debtor actually kicked the SNs out of the last GSA renewal to try to save the GSA, but that was BEFORE it became clear the Debtor was equally guilty thanks to the SNs throwing the Debtor under the bus multiple times and thanks to the EC/SG mad skills at tying IT in with tainted negotiations.

Stern - If Stern does anything, it slows down this process until another BK case challenges Stern and it goes back to the Supremes for clarification. THJMW ain't gonna be that Judge AND we would get a stay of the entire case while all this happens. The good thing is she has a clear case of horribly tainted negotiations and won't even have to deal with Stern in order to kill the GSA, however, if she really wanted to keep the GSA alive and finds no issues with ANICO and tainted negotiations, she'll have to be one of the first BK Judges to challenge Stern.

If you are in the bad judge, the fix is in, sacrifice a few for the good of the many, or whatever other camps there are that claim no matter what, even JPM/FDIC pulling out of the GSA, THJMW will keep it alive, I have no idea why you would even be here or own stock.

messages.finance.yahoo.com/...;mid=832448&tof=16&frt=2
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! body1
body1:

eindrücke vom gericht user catz

21
26.08.11 17:04
Catz' recap from Court on 8/24/11 - Part #1
Well, I'm back from Court -- a bit more rested and now reflecting on the experience and what I heard.

While I remain cognizant of how dicey this has all been, I walked away from court with a better feeling than I walked into court with.

I was reasonably sure that I would hear little from THJMW during the hearing. And I was, honestly, pleasantly surprised that I was wrong. And even more pleasantly surprised with my reads on her – both verbal and facial and non-verbal stylings.

Of course, it all began with Rosen stating why he prepared the sequence the way it was. That since the SNHs were effectively rebutting the charges by the EC and others that the SNHs were slated to go after the EC and others had said their piece. Folse argued that the “burden” on proposing a Plan and it’s confirmation falls on the Debtors and other plan proponents, and therefore they – collectively – should go first, and that includes the SNHs who want the plan confirmed.

The court agreed. And when Rosen suggested that he wasn’t going to re-hash the written arguments, she not-so-humorously jumped on that and basically said then he could sit down now. That, combined with the court stating that they were already far along with their decision and opinion, was telling. While a humorous exchange, it set the stage that the court had already read the written closings, and was re-telegraphing to the parties that they ought to be sticking to ‘new’ information and not a re-hash and re-presentation of their already-on-file written closing arguments.

Rosen presented a powerpoint with lots of details in long paragraph form. The key two slides were the “waterfall” – which had an actual waterfall background, and varying (and dropping) amounts of monies covering some and of course not reaching equity. Later on, he attacked the Marshall valuations as a “house of cards” – and used a really cheesy (and badly drawn) powerpoint sequence to slowly build up a house of cards (ya know, one card leaning on another, then topped of by a slab of cards, and then building up more) – and as he talked, one card after another was put up on the powerpoint and then when it was done, the entire house-of-cards were shown “collapsed” on the ground, scattered about.

It was cheesy. And the court, I feel, saw it as such. A demonstrative gone awry. Trying to use a visual to make up for an argument that was hard to make.

Of course, the SNHs got up and basically tried to make the case, over and over, that they didn’t Insider Trade. And why they didn’t. And how that even if they had done some questionable things, it didn’t rise to Insider Trading. And even if it looked like insider trading, that they hadn’t harmed the debtors and that somehow was the law to be applied. And even if they had accidentally done something, it was an accident and not with scienter (willful intent) and that was a requirement for them to have done anything bad. And even on top of all of that, if they even had IT’d, then the court couldn’t really do anything bad like disallow their claims. And plus, even if Fried Frank had shared information they shouldn’t have shared, that it wasn’t a case of “Misappropriation” for that particular instance. And of course, the whole logic of “it was a bad time in the marketplace” as somehow justifying what went on, well, the court didn’t seem to buy it.

And the whole “it’s so hard to set up an ethical wall for a long period of time” arguments fell like a lead balloon and the floor shook when it hit. It came across as “Ethical Walls are for Sissies” and we don’t have to build them since we are sophisticated. And the court clearly felt otherwise. If you get privileged information, you don’t trade. And if you trade, you don’t get privileged information. It was clear the court was quite upset with the concept of “ethical walls can’t be built when a case might go on for a year or more”. “We have a right to get the most out of our investment by both negotiating and trading”. Nope, the judge didn’t buy it.

Bull. The look on the courts face was one of “you have got to be kidding me” with your arguments. And when the arguments came that she didn’t have “disallowance” authority, I thought it was highly telling that she didn’t just let that go. She challenged them on “why do you think I don’t have that authority” --- telling that she actually had done the research, and read the written arguments against disallowance, and was challenging the SNHs to explain further why they thought she didn’t have that authority. Telling to me that she’d be actually considering it, otherwise “why bother” asking the questions. Now, the pessimist in me says, she may have just been irked at the attitude of the SNHs and wanting it to be a remedy available in cases “in general” and was making her point. But I did feel it was applicable to this case, and the challenge by the court was one specific to this case, and not a general challenge to the concept of disallowance.

The overriding feeling I got was there was very little “here’s why you should confirm the plan” discussions. And entirely too much (“methinks they doth protest too much”) about defending the Insider Trading charges. Somehow arguing the truth is an easy sell. Arguing vociferously, trying to sway the court against seeing that truth --- well, at some point, you realize that the arguments are getting so arcane that it’s just dozens of darts being randomly thrown – hoping that the court feels compelled to not rule on that IT occurred because just one of those darts “stuck” on the dart board.
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! body1
body1:

Teil 2

18
26.08.11 17:04
Catz' recap from Court on 8/24/11 - Part #2
I noticed that she tended to multitask and otherwise not give full attention during all of the SNHs presentations and other plan proponents. There’s two monitors in front of her, and with the ELMO setup and various presentations, etc – it was clear that she wasn’t really reading what they were putting up to show her – especially the long-winded slides, and the slides of quotations of law, etc. Her attitude was one of “move along, I know this, you’ve said this already in your written”, or worse, “move along, you’re quoting law that I am completely familiar with”, etc.

In short. The feeling was as if I had sat in on an “insider trading case” and would not have guessed that I was there for a “Bankruptcy Plan Confirmation” – eg, the proponents didn’t do a whole lot to further their arguments that the “plan should be confirmed” and “here’s why” – it was a lot more of defending on the serious IT charges, and the new-found “bad faith” evidence, etc.

I guess you’d expect a Plan Proponent to be offensive in presenting a plan. This was clearly, virtually all defensive on attacks that had been made (prior in written and in prior hearings) against the plan.

When the EC and the Plan Opponents got up. My feel was they were targeted. They did not re-hash the arguments in their prior written briefs. They brought up new case rulings, and really hammered home (IMHO) just how bad this whole bankruptcy case was played. And I think they did a very good job also appealing to the “this isn’t what bankruptcy of a company is supposed to be about. Turning the situation into a game of dollars by a powerful few.” And that seemed to resonate with the court. The court did not seem to be pleased with what has come out. And certainly not pleased with being asked to approve a plan under the revised circumstances disclosed.

Folse does quite well. And his arguments had rapt attention of the room. And, specifically of the court. As I was paying attention closely to the non-verbal clues, she watched and listened with intent the entire time Folse presented. Unlike her multitasking and occasional aloofness when the SNHs prated on, she was focused on Folse and the words and the arguments being made.

The TPS guy did well as well. Again, focused to why the court should not approve the plan. Of course the whole argument on how the TPS ruling (prior) should be “ring fenced” while it is on appeal went badly for them. Knowing what I think I understand of the argument, I think he failed to make a distinction on an “appeal of a bankruptcy confirmation” vs. an “appeal of a ruling within bankruptcy before confirmation.” Eg, I felt he was arguing one thing, and the court was hearing and arguing something else.

And of course Art. He’s just wonderful to listen to. As Ilene noted, he comes across “believable” – compared to him, many of the other lawyers come across as paid mouthpieces – willing to say anything at all, and find a case to justify the stench in the room coming from their mouths as being actually daises (and we all should, according to them, ignore that they are rotting and that’s what stinks).

I will need to go and listen to the Pro Se shareholders separately. And I have not done so yet. From where I was sitting, I really couldn’t hear them well. I’m sure it was picked up better on the microphones and the audio than I could hear. Of course, I was pleased with what I could hear.

And having Dorothea put in the closing punch – I think that caught all the pro se people off guard, we (certainly I) did not know she was going to speak. But the simple truth of “she was on the EC and couldn’t trade, and signed so – why can these sophisticated hedge funds get to trade” – rang a very loud bell. Well received by the judge.

All in all, yes, I feel better. What comes of it, is to be seen with the opinion from the judge.

And when she quipped that nothing today brought her closer to a ruling – that has been misinterpreted.

What she, to me, was saying – is related to what she started out with – that reading the written and the plan confirmation hearing, she was far along towards delivering an opinion – and that holding these closing arguments had done little to add to, or certainly change her mind, of where she was going.

What do I expect? I think given the arguments presented, and the non-verbal (and sometimes verbal) clues from the court… I don’t think this plan will be confirmed either. And she did have questions on whether the plan’s restrictive nature allowed for her to make modifications to it, or just give it an up or down approval. I don’t know where she’s leaning on that (modifications vs. outright denial of this plan). But if it’s up or down, I think she will rule down. Whether it’s another “here’s the changes required”, or out-and-out denial due to it being so tainted by IT – remains to be seen.

I also don’t think she will rule on the EC’s request to prosecute claims before she renders her opinion on the Plan. They tie so closely together, that I wouldn’t be surprised if both rulings (Opinion on the plan) and the EC’s motion for prosecution, come out at the same time.
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! PaulTop
PaulTop:

Hallo nochmal

7
26.08.11 17:09

Hochinteressanter Artilel für Wamu Aktionäre.

www.welt.de/debatte/article13567690/...hen-Leben-erst-lebenswert.html

Punktlandung.

Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Pinot_Grigio
Pinot_Grigio:

Bamberger69

18
26.08.11 17:13
http://www.ariva.de/...KN_893906_News_t364286?page=6406#jumppos160157

Zu deiner Frage (Frank Partnoy) schaue bitte mal hier.

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/...&rt=2&frt=2&off=1#-1

The motion to employ Frank Partnoy is up for hearing on *** SEPTEMBER 6 ***

See
8/3/2011 8379 Application for an Order Pursuant to 11 U.S.C. §§ 328 and 1103 and Federal Rule of Bankruptcy Procedure 2014 Authorizing the Retention and Employment of Frank Partnoy as Securities Litigation Consultant to the Official Committee of Equity Security Holders of Washington Mutual, Inc., et al. Nunc Pro Tunc to June 29, 2011 1337 k http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229110803000000000022.pdf
pdf page 1:

Hearing Date: September 6, 2011 at 2:00 pm (ET)
Objection Deadline: August 17, 2011 at 4:00pm (ET)
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Derwisch99
Derwisch99:

Zeitplan

2
26.08.11 17:16
Hallo,

wie sieht denn jetzt der Zeitplan aus? Hat MW bei Hearing eigentlich angedeutet, bis wann ihre Entscheidung vorliegen wird? Wird ja langsam Zeit für ein mögliches Settlement....
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! zion666
zion666:

PaulTop

23
26.08.11 17:17
Hochinteressanter Artikel für dich.

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Netzkultur%29

Punktlandung!
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! ägypten
ägypten:

???

 
26.08.11 17:19
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! fatmamen
fatmamen:

++++ im plus

8
26.08.11 18:00
warum nur?und das mit solch einem volumen.....................................mm spielchen,trotzdem besser als im minus
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! noenough
noenough:

grüss die süsse meute hier!

17
26.08.11 18:15
bin wieder am aufkaufen

also wundert euch nicht wenns hoch geht

einer muss das zeugs hier ja weg kaufen!


isch doch richtig oder!?
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Horusfalke
Horusfalke:

ich muss gestehen, warte mit dem Nachkauf ;-))

8
26.08.11 18:22
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! noenough
noenough:

es zuckt immer kurz wenn ich kauf!

9
26.08.11 18:26
könnte gut sein das wir heute abend fett im plus sind!

ich denke in gut einer bis zwei stunden oder drei aber höchstens vier ist es soweit!

ihr kennt mich,
ich spür sowas immer vorher und es ist sogar schon leicht dunkel drausen!



isch doch richtig oder!?
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Andylein
Andylein:

@faster #160152

6
26.08.11 18:26

a+  heute nach Börsenschluss

Es könnte aber auch sein, dass hier vor 2013 gar nichts passiert, alles reine Spekulation. Es ist hier teilweise spannender als bei einem Krimi, aber es wird Zeit, zum Ende zu kommen und zwar zu einem hoffentlich guten. 

VG Andylein

Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Kleinst-Aktionoer
Kleinst-Aktion.:

@herrscher

8
26.08.11 18:35
Ok, auch von mir ein abschliessendes Wort zu einem "Disput", in dem ich Dich nicht persönlich beleidigt habe (und auch nicht wollte) sondern nur das von Dir geschriebene als Blödsinn bezeichnet habe.
Wie neversurrender bereits schrieb, der Originaltext von Mary war:
"I am not sure...brings me any closer to a decision"
Das haben wir hier am 25.08. lang und breit besprochen. Dabei wurde auch klar, das Pfandbriefs Übersetzung ziemlich "frei" ist und negativer behaftet, als der Originaltext.

Zum Thema Starke. Er war derjeniger (Als TPS-Anwalt) der MW wegen der "power to rule" angriff. Du projeziertest diese Aussage auf JPM-Anwälte, was schlichtweg falsch ist.

Die Krönung dazu die "Kurs->Keller" Aussage und die "Karren im Dreck" Aussage.

Möglicherweise hast Du die Diskussion zu Auswertung des hearings nicht gelesen, sonst wäre Dir das aufgefallen.

*KA*
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! lander
lander:

thanks Catz! not eom

12
26.08.11 18:38
investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=66568222

Zitat Polemarchos_Megas:

thanks Catz! not eom

i listened in during the closing and I had the same impression about the arguments and the facts being offered by both sides.

I have relistened to many parts (sometimes 4-5 times, like Art) to get every detail straight. What i lacked was a summary by someone present. Someone that can put the voice and sound into context.
Incredible thanks for that!

On the basis of both i see two scenarios and one very unlikely possibility.

Scenario 1: (best case)

Plan and GSA denied, Hedgies ousted, EC prosecution allowed...
(basically meaning the Debtors are out of the game, EC runs show)


Scenario 2: (JPM's wish)

Plan and GSA approved, some claims removed though. Hedgies ousted and EC gets to them in other court.


Possibility (unlikely or unexplainable)

Plan and GSA approved. IT allegations denied.
-------------
Zitatende

MfG.L:)
Alles nur meine pers. Meinung, kein Kauf- oder Verkaufs-Empfehlung!
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! MacBull
MacBull:

Hallo liebe Wamuq-Aktionäre, wenn ihr noch

14
26.08.11 18:44
noch genügend Kohle habt, müsst ihr das wie noenough machen: KAUFEN, KAUFEN, KAUFEN !!

Dann geht der Kurs auch nach oben!!

Isch doch rischtich oder ?

ABER nur soviel kaufen, wie ihr bei einem eventuellen Totalverlust verkraften könnt!!

$$$$$$$$ für uns alle !!

MacBull
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! lander
lander:

Feststellung

18
26.08.11 18:47
in sämtlichen Amiforen sind sie aus dem Häuschen und voller Dankbarkeit für den von USER CATZ eingestellten Bericht vom Gericht gestern dem er persönlich beiwohnte!
(hier netterweise bereits von User Body eingefügt - Merci)



NUR HIER BEI UNS  im ariva WIRD SÄMTLICHE ENERGIE AUF KLEINKRIEG VERSCHWENDET

--------
Kleinst-Aktion - warum lässt DU dich immer wieder so schnell aus der Reserve locken - Keep Cool ;)

MfG.L:)

ps. Grundübel liegt wahrscheinlich wie immer hier andem fehlendem Verstehen der Fremdsprache ...

also bitte, Profis vor und eine kleine Zusammenfassung der, wie ICH meine int. Zusammenfassung von Catz wiedergeben - Danke im Vorraus

Alles nur meine pers. Meinung, kein Kauf- oder Verkaufs-Empfehlung!
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Neo2010
Neo2010:

@MacBull

8
26.08.11 18:49

Ich hab schon so viel gekauft das ich es nicht mehr verkraften kann.

Deshalb kaufe ich jetzt noch mehr weil es sowieso egal ist =)



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