messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/...;frt=2&off=1
Zitat lawrencemea...:
patience...what I don't understand is why some make a difference between debtors WMI and SNHs....although they are apparently seperate entities, aren't they the one and same at this point....being that the SNHs hold majority of WMI's first to be paid debt???
WMI-Debtors=SNHs=HFs.....???
And if so...My understanding is that with the current GSA SNHs say they have withdrawn ,... I believe based mainly on the fact of the releases issue..... But at the present time should the current GSA still remain... The debtors/SNHs will still be beneficiaries of the outcome of the agreement between debtors/JPM/FDIC.....would they not???
So if the GSA was negotiated with SNHs in attendance creating terms of the GSA it stands that not only SNHs having unclean hands and bad faith negotiations to be considered but also reflected on the debtors/WMI(considering
WMI-Debtors=SNHs=HFs) as well...and their professionals that were all involved with the likes of JPM and FDIC....
thanks...good luck WaMuers...
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Zitat patience360...:
Lawrence, you have a valid point. It is confusing. But my understanding is the Debtors are DIP, who owe money to SNHs and other creditors. Theoretically, GSA is a negotiated settlement primarily between JPM/FDIC and the debtors with the consent of wmi creditors/bond holders, and with the understanding that the debtors will use the settlement dollars to pay off creditors/bondholders. In our case, SNHs participated in settlement talks and traded certain WMI equities at the same time. I am not saying the debtors were not aware of SNHs insider trading activities. Worse, they might even aid SNHs wrongdoing. But it will be difficult to prove that the debtors, JPMC and FDIC all "willingly" committed wrongdoing in SNHs insider trading scheme.
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ZItat lawrencemea...:
"But it will be difficult to prove that the debtors, JPMC and FDIC "
Remember though this being a civil case...the proof only has to show that it was more likey that JPM/FDIC knew rather than more likely JPM/FDIC did not know.....
And as investorwad pointed out....JPM more likely DID Know since they were the first to file for a 2019 against the SNHs...and FDIC was made aware by JPM's filing being participants of the case..... So I think it would not be all that difficult for Susman team to connect the dots for the court....
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ZItat patience360...:
I believe what you said are true. But, JPM can still play innocent here:
1. We didn't participate in any IT activities.
2. We did suspect SNHs traded wmi debts while at the settlement negotiation table (so we asked for the filing of 2019). But we had no proof of actual IT fraud at that time, and it was not our responsibility to policy SNHs.
3. We continued to negotiate with the debtors in good faith as we had expected other parties to do the same.
I'm not saying JPM is innocent. On the contrary, I think they are suspicious, and the whole GSA is rotten with frauds, deceptions, and "bad faith." But, one of my key questions is, can we successfully apply the bad faith/good faith argument revitalized through IT charges to the whole structure of GSA or just a portion of it (Piers and NewCo because that's where IT took place - trading Piers shares to take over NewCO as designed or dictated by SNHs.)? Or conversely, can GSA parties isolate the impact of the incident to the aforementioned limited areas and how? These questions must have been considered, and re-considered among involved players in their decisions as to whether or not worthy pursuing settlement talks with one another, and how to behave in the talks.
In the last sentence, "These questions must have been considered, and re-considered among involved players in their decisions as to whether or not worthy pursuing settlement talks with one another, and how to behave in the talks."
"settlement talks" means the "current settlement talks" (between EC and debtors, et al).
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Zitat spot1roth:
Patience, you said "But it will be difficult to prove that the debtors, JPMC and FDIC all "willingly" committed wrongdoing in SNHs insider trading scheme. "
I think the GSA is DEAD but the court does NOT know it yet due to the fact the Horsies/Hedgies are working with the EC to avoid going to prison. There is no doubt that under oath they would have said that JPM corsed/threatened them. If the depos are taken, they will reflect this really putting the Government Judge in a tough spot because at that point it would be ILLEGAL for her to approve the GSA.
The actions by Susman are very telling, as he would not have cancelled the appeal, depos and more unless he already had the evidence. I believe one depo was taken so this could be part of the court record in time, preventing this Judge from claiming it to be heresay.
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Zitat patience360...:
spot, I'm not saying GSA is dead or not. On the contrary, my whole point is GSA will likely be modified in favor of the equity because of multiple pressure points.
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Zitat dljtom:
patience, your conclusion is only valid if rosen snake/jpig/fraudic have no knowledge and were not entangled with what the hedgies did, is that possible?
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Zitat investorwad:
JPM first filed the 2019 against the SN's and then the GSA was forged. So, yes, JPM and WMI knew about potential IT. The BIG question is did they use that knowledge/threat to coerce the SNs into the GSA. Get proof of that and the GSA is destroyed.
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Zitat patience360...:
Then, prove it, document it. If shareholders can convince the court the debtors, JPM and FDIC were not only aware of, but knowingly aided SNHs insider trading frauds. Then, of course, GSA is dead right there.
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Zitat batsbats100:
you all say that Susman has cancelled the appeal. I never saw that ,I saw that he will cancel the appeal if EC agrees with Rosen on a POR 7 . If the Por 7 is not agreed upon by equity, then Susman will file his objections to the old plan and will be free to depose the hedge fundsand the appeal will not be cnacelled
that is motion to cancel a deposition. I agree that the depositions were cancelled for the moment, but I am not of the belief that the appeal was cancelled. I want to see the motion
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Zitat patience360...:
bats, here is a short recap:
The depositions are put on hold for the time being.
In a few days, if we have a deal, e.g. POR 7 (and acceptable to EC), then we may not need IT investigation any more. If the settlement talks break down, then the debtors will move forward with confirmation hearing of old POR (POR 6), meanwhile, EC will have three weeks to complete the IT investigation.
This is my understanding
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Zitatende
MfG.L:)
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