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Memory193:

zu WMI und wmbfsb

7
18.03.11 16:52
Man muss indirekte und direkte Tochtergesellschaften unterscheiden. WMBfsb war zum Zeitpunkt der Beschlagnahme eine direkte Tochter von Pike Street Holdings, Inc, die wiederrum eine direkte von WMB, diese waren letztendlich indirekte Tochtergesellschaften von WMI.

Durch das Seizure wurde die ganze Struktur auseinander gerissen, alle direkten Gesellschaften von WMB gingen an JPM.

Für WMI blieb nur WMI's direkte Gesellschaften, wie die WM Mortgage Reinsurance Compance, Inc. (WMMRC) oder WMI Investment Corp. (WMIIC)
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Pjöngjang:

The FDIC's WaMu suit

20
18.03.11 16:55
The FDIC complaint against various WaMu (WAMUQ.PK) officers makes for fascinating reading. I’ve embedded it below.

One thing that jumps out from the complaint is the enormous amount of very clear documentation here that the WaMu officers in question, up to and including Kerry Killinger, not only knew exactly what they were doing all along, but were very clear about it. They embarked upon an explicit strategy of increasing risk, by writing new mortgages, by concentrating on subprime, and by concentrating geographically. They were aware of the downside risks involved, and they went ahead with the strategy regardless. At the same time, they were very dismissive when it came to risk management.

There’s no indication whatsoever that the officers tried to hide what they were doing from their board or their regulators, or that they thought it was in any way wrong or illegal.

If the risks they took paid off, they would have been hailed as heroes, and the FDIC would have no problem with their behavior. There certainly wouldn’t have been a lawsuit like this one, since the FDIC has to show that it suffered damages before it can bring it.

I don’t like the idea of criminalizing failure. Banks by their nature are leveraged institutions which are vulnerable to runs and to declines in their asset values. There’s always a natural tension between managers, who are looking to maximize profits, and regulators, who are looking to minimize risks. But in this case there’s no indication that WaMu’s regulators, including the FDIC, expressed any concern about Killinger’s strategy. If they were OK with it, at the time, it’s easy to see how the executives considered that a green light to go ahead and implement it with gusto.

But at the same time, it’s unconscionable that these guys should be able to get away with what they did just because they did it out in the open, in front of supine regulators. They knew that they were too big to fail; they knew that ultimately WaMu’s liabilities (or at least its deposits) were being backstopped by the US government; and they knew that if they wanted to get their total compensation up into the $100 million range they were just going to have to take enormous risks and gamble with the money they had essentially unlimited access to at the Fed’s discount window.

Bankers have to be held to some kind of standard. And the standard put forward here, by the FDIC, in paragraph 184, seems a reasonable one to me. Indeed, it’s so clear and reasonable that it’s worth quoting in full:

As officers and/or directors, Killinger, Rotella and Schneider owed WaMu a duty of care to carry out their responsibilities by exercising the degree of care, skill and diligence that ordinarily prudent persons in like positions would use under similar circumstances. This duty of care, included, but was not limited to, the following:

a. To adopt such careful, reasonable and prudent policies and procedures, including those related to lending and underwriting, as required to ensure that the Bank did not engage in unsafe and unsound banking practices, and to ensure that the affairs of the Bank were conducted in accordance with these policies and procedures;

b. To communicate to the Bank’s loan officers and underwriters a clear expectation that they must adhere to sound lending policies and credit procedures by establishing a system of checks and balances and by careful monitoring of loan officers’ conduct;

c. To require that sufficiently detailed, current and reliable information be provided upon which they could make prudent decisions, including the use of current technology and internal control procedures to timely identify problems and allow for early remediation;

d. To support and foster WaMu’s internal risk management functions, and ensure adequate funding for these functions for a Bank of WaMu’s size and assets;

e. To develop contingency plans and take other proactive steps to limit or prevent significant financial losses in the held-for-investment single family residential home loans portfolio;

f. To consider and adopt reasonable recommendations from employees of WaMu’s Enterprise Risk Management department for controlling the Bank’s lending risks;

g. To timely acknowledge and adequately respond to changes in economic conditions that create additional risk with respect to certain types of products or transactions;

h. To enforce policies and procedures designed to ensure that loans would not be made based on inadequate or inaccurate information;

i. Upon receiving notice of an unsafe or unsound practice, to make a reasonable investigation thereof and to exercise reasonable business judgment with respect to all facts that a reasonable investigation would have disclosed;

j. To carefully review reports of examinations and other directives of regulatory agencies, to carry out the instructions and orders contained in those reports, to investigate and cure problems noted therein, and to prevent any repetition of such problems and deficiencies; and

k. To conduct WaMu’s business in compliance with all applicable state and federal laws and regulations.

To be sure, a lot of this is 20-20 hindsight vision. But at the same time, it’s basic common sense, and highly-paid bank executives should live and breathe this stuff every day. The fact that WaMu’s executives failed to do so was a significant contributor to a global financial crisis for which, to date, no senior executives have been found responsible at all.

This is by no means a cut-and-dried case, and I suspect that the FDIC will be more than willing to settle with the directors’ insurers before trial. The FDIC has always been particularly vindictive when it comes to WaMu, for reasons I don’t pretend to understand — something which comes out in this complaint when they decided to make the executives’ wives named defendants. It would be great, too, if the FDIC admitted it fell down on the job in terms of regulating WaMu in 2005-8.

Still, I’d like to see more of this kind of thing, rather than less. If only because that way it wouldn’t look like WaMu and its executives were being singled out. Where’s the equivalent suit, for instance, against Stan O’Neal?
seekingalpha.com/article/...-the-fdic-s-wamu-suit?source=kizur
Antworten
Dude44:

FDIC Sues WaMu Executives, and Wives - aus WSJ

3
18.03.11 17:03

The wives of Washington Mutual Inc.'s two top executives when the nation's largest thrift collapsed in 2008 were accused by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. of illegally moving cash and houses into trusts in an effort to shield the assets from legal claims.

The allegations, made in a federal-court lawsuit filed Wednesday in Seattle, are the latest sign of how the FDIC is ratcheting up the pressure on executives and directors at financial institutions that failed during the crisis. The suit is the sixth filed by the FDIC stemming from 350 bank failures since the start of 2007.

The collapse of WaMu under a mountain of bad mortgages was the biggest bank failure in U.S. history. The suit accused former Washington Mutual Chief Executive Kerry Killinger, President and Chief Operating Officer Stephen Rotella and David Schneider, the company's former home-loans president, of negligently going on a "lending spree, knowing that the real-estate market was in a 'bubble.' "

The three executives allegedly gambled billions of dollars on high-risk home loans, a strategy that maximized their own compensation, said the FDIC. Messrs. Killinger, Rotella and Schneider denied the allegations.

In a statement, Mr. Killinger said the suit is "baseless and unworthy of the government." The wives of Mr. Killinger and Mr. Rotella declined to comment through spokesmen.

The suit didn't specify the damages being sought in the wake of WaMu's demise, but a person familiar with the matter said the FDIC wants $900 million. The main source of payment for any damages would likely be the former executives' professional liability insurance.

Also named as defendants in the suit were Linda Killinger and Esther Rotella. Mr. and Mrs. Killinger allegedly transferred homes in Palm Desert, Calif., and Shoreline, Wash., into trusts in a bid to protect the assets.

The FDIC also accused Mr. Rotella of transferring more than $1 million to Mrs. Rotella after Seattle-based WaMu was seized in September 2008. The couple allegedly put their home in Orient, N.Y., into trusts to protect it from future claims.

Mr. Rotella said he and his wife acquired the home about 10 years ago, before Mr. Rotella joined WaMu, and it "was put into the family trust for typical financial planning purposes and continues to be jointly owned."

Lawyers not connected to the suit said naming spouses in such cases is rare but not unprecedented for the FDIC. "From a former executive's point of view, suing your wife is the definition of hardball. But from the FDIC's perception, there's precedent for it and they have the authority," said Thomas Vartanian, a partner at Dechert LLP.

In a statement, Mr. Rotella said it is "almost beyond belief that the FDIC would take action against an effective, hard working bank manager who performed well under extraordinary conditions in an effort to save an important financial institution."

Mr. Rotella said FDIC officials had rejected his "offer to meet, answer their questions, and explain his role as chief operating officer at the company."

Mr. Killinger also criticized banking regulators, saying they had reviewed WaMu's financial position and "had offices on the premises '24/7"' in the months leading up to the financial institution's collapse.

Mr. Schneider declined to comment. He now works for J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., which acquired WaMu's banking operations. A J.P. Morgan spokeswoman declined to comment.

The FDIC declined to comment on the suit. In a statement, FDIC spokesman Andrew Gray said the agency "will initiate lawsuits against former officers, directors and other professionals of failed institutions when the case has merit and is expected to be cost effective."

As of March 15, the FDIC's board had authorized the filing of lawsuits seeking to recover $3.57 billion from 158 officers and directors of failed banks. Lawsuits were filed against former directors and officers of about one-fourth of the 1,800 institutions that died in the savings-and-loan crisis of the 1980s and 1990s.

Write to Dan Fitzpatrick at dan.fitzpatrick@wsj.com

http://online.wsj.com/article/...73914.html?ru=yahoo&mod=yahoo_hs

Gruß

Dude44

Antworten
Pjöngjang:

Feds Sue WaMu Ex-CEO Killinger and Two Others

12
18.03.11 17:03
(Source: The Seattle Times By Sanjay Bhatt) - Firing the biggest shot yet in a promised barrage of litigation against executives of failed banks, federal regulators Thursday sued the three men who led Washington Mutual as its home-loan losses ballooned during the financial crisis.The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. alleged Seattle-based WaMu lost billions of dollars due to negligent actions by Kerry Killinger, WaMu’s former CEO; Stephen Rotella, former chief operating officer; and David Schneider, former president of WaMu’s Home Loans division. The suit also names Killinger’s wife, Linda, and Rotella’s wife, Esther, claiming they participated in transferring assets into trusts where they would be out of creditors’ reach.

The FDIC sought more than $900 million from the executives in private negotiations preceding the lawsuit, a source familiar with the matter said. It has a $125 million settlement with WaMu’s outside directors pending approval in bankruptcy court.

The suit, filed in federal court in Seattle, doesn’t specify how much in damages the FDIC seeks to collect.

Killinger presided as chief executive of WaMu from 1990 to early September 2008, when the board of directors fired him. Federal regulators closed the bank on Sept. 25 and sold it to JPMorgan Chase for $1.9 billion. The next day, WaMu’s holding company filed for bankruptcy.

WaMu remains the largest bank to fail in U.S. history.

The FDIC suit says it intends “to hold these three highly paid senior executives, who were chiefly responsible for WaMu’s higher risk home lending program, accountable for the resulting losses.”

The FDIC also asked the court to freeze certain assets, including bank accounts and homes of the executives, pending a trial.

In a statement, Killinger called the FDIC’s allegations “fiction,” and the legal conclusions “political theater.”

“The management of Washington Mutual was sound and prudent,” Killinger said. “Not one dime was lost by the FDIC insurance fund on the seizure and sale of the bank.”

In an open letter, Rotella denounced “this abuse of power by the FDIC,” calling it “patently unfair for the FDIC to expect an individual to have perfect foresight into a crisis that the FDIC itself did not see coming.”

Calls to Schneider’s home in Princeton, N.J., were not returned.

Aggressive growth

The lawsuit portrays Killinger as the architect of an aggressive growth strategy that involved generating high volumes of risky home loans, juicing short-term profits to boost his pay but exposing the bank to potentially catastrophic losses.

Rotella and Schneider arrived at WaMu in 2005 and became the chief facilitators of Killinger’s flawed strategy, which amounted to “gambling billions of dollars of WaMu’s money,” the lawsuit alleges.

The defendants “led WaMu on this lending spree knowing that the real-estate market was in a ‘bubble’ that could not support such a risky strategy over the long term, that WaMu did not have the technology to adequately manage and evaluate the higher risks associated with the portfolio,” the FDIC alleges in the suit.

“This relentless push for growth was exemplified by WaMu’s advertising slogan, ‘The Power of Yes,’ which promised that few borrowers would be turned away,” the FDIC alleges.

The FDIC’s lawsuit zeros in on how the executives’ risky strategy turned the bank’s “held-for-investment” home-loan portfolio — those loans kept on the bank’s books — into a ticking time bomb.

When WaMu failed, this portfolio totaled $177 billion, according to the suit. Option ARMs — loans on which homeowners could end up owing much more than they borrowed, raising the risk of default — and home-equity loans together accounted for more than half of the portfolio.

The three executives repeatedly assured WaMu’s board that they were properly pricing loans for the risks, but that wasn’t true, the FDIC alleged.

WaMu’s top credit officer warned Killinger that the bank was “putting borrowers into homes that they simply cannot afford,” according to the complaint. He’s unnamed in the complaint.

Rotella stripped the bank’s central risk-management group of its independence and authority, the suit alleges. Both Killinger and Rotella were heard to deride risk managers as “checkers checking checkers,” according to the suit.

And in August 2005, Schneider — whose mandate to managers was “be bold” — recruited a chief risk officer for the home-loans division who had scant experience in risk management and none at a bank, according to the complaint.

In 2006, WaMu’s companywide risk officer warned the three executives of the danger posed by the bank’s narrow focus on markets like California and Florida and on risky variable-rate home loans.

“A severe ‘twin shock’ of sustained housing price decline and rising interest rates could cause a 3x increase in mortgage charge-offs,” the risk officer wrote in a report.

The three WaMu executives treated the top risk officer “dismissively,” left him out of important meetings and fired him in May 2008, the FDIC alleges.

Instead of changing course, WaMu pushed harder, the suit alleges.

As of early February 2008, WaMu’s exposure to home loans was higher than that of any bank in the nation, when compared with its capital base, the FDIC says in the suit.

The bank’s losses mounted as the housing market deteriorated. For example, subprime loans written off as uncollectable exploded from $47 million in 2005 to $956 million in the first six months of 2008.

Executive compensation

WaMu’s strategy brought short-term rewards for the top executives. From January 2005 to September 2008, they collectively received more than $95 million in compensation, according to the lawsuit.

In August 2008, as WaMu’s finances spiraled downward, Killinger and his wife transferred their homes in The Highlands just north of Seattle, and Palm Desert, Calif., into irrevocable trusts. The lawsuit says the purpose was to “hinder, delay or defraud” existing creditors and those who Killinger feared might come after him.

Rotella and his wife did the same that spring with their home in Orient, N.Y., the FDIC alleges, and Rotella transferred more than $1 million to his wife after WaMu failed.

While the FDIC did not have to tap its deposit insurance fund in WaMu’s failure, the banking company’s creditors did lose money. What they will collect is still being hashed out in bankruptcy court in Delaware.

Any money the FDIC recoups from its lawsuit against the WaMu executives would be used to repay those creditors. It’s highly unlikely anything will be left for WaMu stockholders, who were wiped out when the bank was seized.

WaMu isn’t the only bank whose executives face litigation. The FDIC said it has authorized lawsuits against 158 defendants with potential damages of $3.57 billion related to the recent financial crisis.

But only handful of lawsuits have yet been filed — the WaMu suit is just the sixth, said Paul Hinton, of NERA Economic Consulting in New York. The FDIC typically only sues after sending demand letters to the officers’ professional liability insurers, he said.

Hinton said the agency’s task in making its case against a big bank’s management will be tough.

“It may be harder to show a direct connection between the particular conduct that led to losses at the bank and particular failures of professional conduct at very senior levels of management,” he said.
loanworkout.org/2011/03/...mu-ex-ceo-killinger-and-two-others/
Antworten
delacre:

nochmal an kesi231

6
18.03.11 17:10
den fall dass beide (wmb und wmbfsb) nicht-konsolidierte bilanzen erstellt haben habe ich unter b) in meinem vorherigen posting beschrieben. ich glaube es gibt da von deiner seite ein unverständnis darüber was es heisst eine konsolidierte bilanz zu erstellen oder eben nicht. fakt ist dass in jeder ifrs oder us-gaap bilanz die firmenbeteiligungen die ein unternehmen hat zum buchwert auszuweisen sind d.h. dass die wmb die im besitz der wmbfsb war ihren anteil an dieser (in dem fall 100%) zum buchwert (= net assets) auszuweisen hatte. das ist keine theorie sondern bilanzvorschrift.

wmi als (direkte oder indirekte) mutter aller unternehmen des konzernverbundes musste in jedem fall eine vollkonsolidierte bilanz erstellen. wenn deine theorie korrekt wäre hätten sich dort in der bilanz die von dir genannten über 50mrd. net assets finden müssen...

der transfer der 20mrd. war genehmigungspflichtig weil es wiederum ein gesetz gibt welches ein unternehmen dazu verpflichtet beim transfer einer summe von einem verbundenen unternehmen die über dem vorjahresumsatz dieses unternehmens liegt eine genehmigung dafür einzuholen, d.h. nach us recht ist es nicht statthaft ohne kontrolle geldbeträge zwischen unternehmen "einfach so" hin und herzuschieben auch wenn diese in einem konzernverbund sind.

gruss, delacre.
Antworten
Canon:

bei den WAHUq setzt sich derweil

 
18.03.11 17:26
die talfahrt wieder fort...

ein schelm, wer böses dabei denkt!!

<img src="Wamu WKN 893906 News ! 10086886" />
`:´  "Gentleman-Spekulant"  `:´
Antworten
Pjöngjang:

Washington Mutual timeline

16
18.03.11 17:35
1889: Washington National Building Loan and Investment Association is founded after fire destroys much of Seattle's core. The following year it...

1889: Washington National Building Loan and Investment Association is founded after fire destroys much of Seattle's core. The following year it makes the first monthly installment home loan on the Pacific Coast, lending $700 to build a house in Ballard.

1917: Reconstituted as Washington Mutual Savings Bank, it has more than 16,000 depositor-owners when the U.S. enters World War I. During the war, Washington Mutual's assets rise 68 percent.

1930: Washington Mutual makes the first of many acquisitions, rescuing Continental Mutual Savings Bank from financial distress as the Great Depression deepens.

1970s: The company pioneers the first shared cash-machine network in the nation, The Exchange.

1980s: Washington Mutual buys brokerage firm Murphey Favre of Spokane. It converts to investor ownership, with shares starting to trade on March 11, 1983.

Early 1990s: Kerry Killinger becomes CEO in April 1990 and chairman of the board the next January. From 1990 to 1996, WaMu acquired 16 smaller banks in Washington, Oregon, Utah and California.

1997-98: Washington Mutual buys Great Western Financial and H.F. Ahmanson for a combined $13.6 billion, becoming a West Coast power with their strong California presence.

1999: The company buys subprime lender Long Beach Financial, which writes mortgages for people with less-than-stellar credit. Killinger calls it "an important extension of Washington Mutual's core strategy to be one of the nation's leading consumer-oriented financial-services institutions."

2001: Acquisition of Dime Bancorp gives Washington Mutual a big New York presence. The company also buys Fleet Mortgage, becoming for a time the nation's No. 1 mortgage originator.

2005: Washington Mutual buys credit-card issuer Providian Financial.

2006: Washington Mutual eliminates more than 10,000 jobs to cut costs as mortgage originations slow.

April 2007: WaMu reports a 20 percent decline in first-quarter profit, beginning a year of increasing difficulties. Killinger warns of "unprecedented deterioration" in the subprime-mortgage market but predicts WaMu's home-lending unit will become profitable again by year's end.

December 2007: WaMu shares hit an 11-year low after it cuts its dividend by 73 percent. The company says it's cooperating with an Securities and Exchange Commission inquiry stemming from allegations by N.Y. Attorney General Andrew Cuomo that it made mortgage loans based on improperly inflated home appraisals.

Jan. 17, 2008: WaMu posts its first annual loss since Ronald Reagan was president, due to fourth-quarter red ink of $1.87 billion.

April 8, 2008: An investor group led by David Bonderman's TPG pumps $7.2 billion into WaMu, getting just over 50 percent of the company at $8.75 a share. WaMu says it will close its approximately 186 remaining stand-alone home-loan offices, laying off 2,600 to 3,000 workers.

June 2, 2008: Kerry Killinger is removed as WaMu chairman after 17 years, replaced by board member Stephen Frank. Killinger remains CEO.

June 17, 2008: WaMu says it is cutting 1,200 more jobs, including 260 at its downtown Seattle headquarters.

July 14, 2008: Investors worried about the financial sector's weakness send WaMu shares down 35 percent to $3.23, a level not seen since February 1991.

July 22, 2008: WaMu posts a $3.3 billion loss for the second quarter.

Sept. 7, 2008: CEO Killinger is forced out, replaced by Alan Fishman, former chief executive of Independence Community Bank of New York. U.S. government takes control of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Sept. 14-19, 2008: Lehman Brothers files for bankruptcy protection, Merrill Lynch is rescued by Bank of America and the federal government takes over insurer American International Group. WaMu's shares sink to $2.01.

Sept. 25, 2008: After massive withdrawals by depositors, regulators seize WaMu and arrange a sale of its assets and deposits to JP Morgan Chase in the largest bank failure in U.S. history.

December 2008: Chase begins laying off 80 percent of WaMu's local workforce and consolidating the 800 remaining office workers into the WaMu Center building.

March 12, 2010: The Washington Mutual Inc. holding company, in bankruptcy since WaMu failed, reaches tentative agreement with JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) over some $4 billion in disputed assets.

April 13, 2010: Killinger, in first public comments since being ousted, tells Senate panel that regulators unfairly seized WaMu's banking operations before its turnaround was complete.

Feb. 8, 2011: Court receives new bankruptcy plan for Washington Mutual Inc., after judge's January ruling that the prior plan's settlement with FDIC and JPMorgan was fair and reasonable but it granted too much protection from legal liabilities to the company's officers, directors and others.

March 17, 2011: FDIC sues Killinger, former chief operating officer Stephen Rotella and David Schneider, former president of WaMu's Home Loans division, seeking more than $900 million.
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/...eline18.html?syndication=rss
Antworten
liner50:

nun oute ich mich aber auch...

2
18.03.11 17:51

Jamie Dimon ist mein brother in low, Pfanbrief mein Cousin und noenough mein jüngerer Bruder!

Antworten
Memory193:

WMI/WMB/WMBfsb/PikeStreet usw.usw.

8
18.03.11 17:57
Delacre Posting: 128307

Das ist alles ein Kettenunternehmengewurschtel....
=> WMBfsb -> direkte Tochter von -> Pike Street Holdings, Inc,
=> Pike Street Holding -> direkte Tochter von von WMB

Ergo waren "WMBfsb" und "Pike Street" letztendlich indirekte Tochtergesellschaften von WMI.

Und wer weiß, was das Bankensteuergesetz der USA nicht für Möglichkeiten bietet "Finanzwertabschreibungen" gerade in einer Krisenzeit vornehmen zu können.

Und Buchwert ist bekanntlich niemals der "echte" Wert sondern enthält "Stille Reserven", die erst bei Veräußerung oder Neubewertung zum Vorschein kommen.....

Hatte Killinger nicht mal was von 50 Mrd. Assets oder Cash gesprochen?
Ich denke mir, der hätte es auch beweisen können, wenn man ihn gelassen hätte.
Nelson hatte doch in seinem Script vor MaryW. im Dezember zumindest 33 Mrd. Vermögen ausfindig gemacht, die auf Seite 20 dieses Scripts zu sehen sind.

Auch wenn es evtl. nicht statthaft war z.B. 20 Filmore-Milliarden von Wmbfsb zu WMB zu schieben, JPM hätte es bestimmt in jedem Fall gedurft (Too big to fail), nur mit der Verschieberei, wäre es ja für das Gangsterpack um "Dimon/Bair/Paulson/SEC" und dem Project-West geschehen gewesen....und JPM wäre evtl. untergegangen.....BlubbBlubbBlubb

Na ja.....
Antworten
Pjöngjang:

New Court Document

16
18.03.11 18:03
Designation of the Record and Statement of Issues on Appeal by Appellant, Daniel Hoffman
www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229110318000000000001.pdf
Antworten
charly503:

also liebe Freunde

3
18.03.11 18:20
ich stelle mir die gebeutelten WaMufans wie die hier vor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5pJ1tAWQ8s&feature=player_embedded
Antworten
delacre:

@memory193

4
18.03.11 18:32
mit den direkten oder indirekten eigentumsverhältnissen von wmb und wmbfsb hast du wohl recht, aber...
es ging in dem ursprünglichen beitrag von kesi gar nicht um wmi sondern nur um wmbfsb und wmb und darum dass die net assets der beiden einfach aufsummiert wurden und die summe als wert der net assets der wmi angesetzt wurden und ich habe argumentiert dass dies nicht korrekt ist.

bzgl. buchwerten die (aufgrund stiller reserven/neubewertungsrücklagen) nicht den echten wert darstellen, auch da gebe ich dir recht , nur auch hier wieder mein aber...
in den usa bzw. auch im us-gaap sind stille reserven zumindest unüblich z.t. gibts für firmen (die wegen einer mutter im ifrs-raum eigentlich eine ifrs-nahe auslegung des us-gaap betreiben) sogar die vorgabe die stillen reserven nicht als solche in der bilanz zu führen (womit dann sogar das ek gegenüber der us-aufsichtsbehörde einen anderen wert haben kann als das gegenüber einer eu-aufsichtsbehörde). insofern würde ich aus praktischer erfahrung eher nicht von stillen reserven in der bilanz eines us-unternehmens ausgehen.

inwiefern es jpm möglich ist geld zwischen seinen subsidiaries zu transferieren und ob sie dabei vorteile gegenüber konkurenten/anderen banken haben, weiss ich nicht. jpm wird aber meines erachtens nicht von der ots reguliert, da sie nicht als thrift (sparkasse) geführt werden... insofern können da sowohl die gesetze als auch die zeitlichen fristen anders sein als im fall des (von ots regulierten) transfers von 20mrd. von wmbfsb zur wmb.
dass dem erfolgten antrag und der bearbeitungsakte bei der ots dazu nicht mehr aufmerksamkeit zuteil wird/wurde wundert mich aber schon und das habe ich auch in vorherigen beiträgen mehrmals geschrieben. erstaunlich fand ich dazu auch die kürzlichen beiträge, wonach (angeblich) von der ots geäussert wurde dass eine entsprechende akte und nicht einmal der antrag zum transfer bei ihnen bekannt/vorhanden wäre...

gruss, delacre.
Antworten
Kesi231:

@delacre

5
18.03.11 18:46

ich gehe davon aus, dass Du jetzt etwas durcheinander bringst...

Du hast geschrieben:

"es ging in dem ursprünglichen beitrag von kesi gar nicht um wmi sondern  nur um wmbfsb und wmb und darum dass die net assets der beiden einfach  aufsummiert wurden und die summe als wert der net assets der wmi  angesetzt wurden und ich habe argumentiert dass dies nicht korrekt ist."

In meinem Beitrag 128288 habe ich NICHT die Zahlen von wmb und WMBfsb zusammen gezogen, sondern die Bilanzzahlen von WMI (rd. 24 Mrd.) und WMBfsb (rd. 29 Mrd)

Link für Bilanz WMI

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/...46/a2187197z10-q.htm

Link für Bilanz WMB fsb

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0ByezbCXwfJlSMjY3MDk3NTMtMTFiNy00ZGFjLWE3YmMtNDdjZDk1ODQwYzRj&hl=en

Antworten
sleepless13:

Mit großem Volumen ging es hoch,mit Taschengeld

3
18.03.11 18:50
wieder runter.
Antworten
delacre:

@kesi231 addieren net assets von wmi und wmbfsb

4
18.03.11 18:53
sorry, aber dann ist der fall noch eindeutiger und das aufaddieren ist in jedem fall nicht korrekt.

die wmi ist die mutter der wmbfsb und hat selber keinen parent d.h. die wmi ist in jedem fall zu einer vollkonsolidierten bilanz verpflichtet und die bilanz der wmi enthält definitiv bereits die wmbfsb werte.

gruss, delacre.
Antworten
tberg:

sleepless13

2
18.03.11 19:11
ist uns doch gut bekannt. gggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....................bananas eben.........
"Anfangen ist leicht, Durchhalten eine Kunst ."
Antworten
Memory193:

Ich meine mal irgendwo (hier?)......

 
18.03.11 19:14
...gelesen zu haben das die WMBfsb eigenständig bilanziert........

Ich habe zwar keine Ahnung vom US-GAAP-Gesetz, aber ich kann mir gut vorstellen, das jede einzelne Tochter selbständig bilanziert, und eine große konsolidierte Konzernbilanz für die WMI als Holding zusätzlich erstellt wird.......

Auch meine ich mal irgendwo (hier, Base, W:O, ?) gelesen zu haben, das die WMB für die WMBfsb die Steuern gezahlt hat...und auf diesem Wege (Filmore) diese Steuergelder zurückbekommen sollte....

Gruß
Antworten
trader84:

@sleepless

6
18.03.11 19:24
ich denke, dass man bei diesem Kursniveau erst bei 5-10M-Blöcken von großem Volumen sprechen kann. Hier wurden auch heute wieder nur Beträge von unter 20.000 Dollar hin und hergeschoben....Das sind Peanuts...
Antworten
finale:

Et kütt

2
18.03.11 19:42
klong
Antworten
Feldberg58:

JPMorgan Chase

6
18.03.11 19:51
Friday, March 18th, 2011, 1:32 pm
Defense attorneys for JPMorgan Chase Bank want to fight a subprime securities-related lawsuit filed by Allstate in federal court.

Allstate sued JPMorgan Chase (: ) and its subsidiaries Bear Stearns and Washington Mutual in February accusing them of fraudulently selling Allstate more than $750 million in residential mortgage-backed securities supported by underlying toxic loans.

Attorneys for JPMorgan filed a motion to move the suit out of state court and into the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York.

The bank's attorneys argued the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., which offloaded Washington Mutual's troubled assets to JPMorgan three years ago, is governed by federal law not state law.

The defense attorneys also believe some of the underlying businesses that originated the troubled assets could be forced to indemnify JPMorgan for losses related to the case later on. And, since some of those entities are in bankruptcy, which is handled in federal courts, attorneys for JPMorgan believe this makes another case for federal jurisdiction.

Debbie McComas, a partner for Haynes and Boone in Dallas, said there are many benefits to obtaining federal jurisdiction in this type of suit.

"I could see a defendant — particularly a banking defendant — seeing the Federal District Court in New York as a forum that is well versed on these issues," she said. "What they see is an educated forum that can handle these issues and is more well versed on them."

She also thinks the choice of venue could becoming a recurring theme in other RMBS lawsuits.

"It seems that from this new round of litigation related to mortgage-backed securities, there will be new procedural issues popping up that deal with venue jurisdiction and who are the proper parties to the suit," she said.

www.housingwire.com/2011/03/18/...ire%2FuOVI+%28HousingWire%29
Antworten
blackberry:

nur so eine idee!

3
18.03.11 19:57
warum sollte ich meine wamus nicht in lehman tauschen:

"Lehman ist zwar pleite, aber eine Atommacht und besitzt immerhin 227 Tonnen Uran
"Lehman gehört ein Teil der FED"
"Lehman hat Lamco - welche gewinnbringend arbeitet!

ist da nicht etwas mehr fantasie ??? auch wenn die Schulden derzeit um ein gewaltiges
Stück höher sind! Noch!!!
Antworten
Gelöschter Beitrag. Einblenden »
#128297

Schwarzwäld.:

Seitenwechsel................

10
18.03.11 20:08
Hallo friends,


ich habe es ja kaum noch zu hoffen gewagt, aber heute oder zumindest heute, sind erfreu-
licherweise -durchweg fast nur- kultivierte  S e r i ö s i s t e n  hier im Forum unterwegs.

Wenn sich das, -und ich fühle mich ganz besonders wohl in dieser Erwartung-, in Zukunft
letztendlich durchsetzt und im Anschluß dann auch so bleibt, werden wir doch noch zu einem -auch aus der Sicht der Leute, welche jenseits des großen Teiches leben und viele andere, welches ebenfalls dieses Forum besuchen-, als seriöse Aktionäre, Forumsnutzer
bzw. sachliche Diskutanten angesehen und nicht wie bisher, als ein Haufen oftmals
undisziplinierter User, welche -und da könnte man durchaus mutmaßen-, aus einem der vielen Slum`s entstammen und diese, ihre vermeintliche Herkunft durch ihren hier
zum Besten gegebenen Jargon mittels Schimpfwörtern auch noch -wenn auch manchmal unbewußt-, unterstreichen !
Die bisherige Abqualifizierung unseres gemeinsamen Forum`s gehörte damit der
Vergangenheit an ! Ich fände, das wäre doch eine Überlegung wert ! ?  

Diese Chance sollten wir dazu nutzen, um unseren Anspruch auf Anerkennung unserer vielleicht künftigen, von Internen u. besonders Externen akzeptierten Sachdiskussionen-ohne permanente, wechselseitige persönliche Beschimpfungen oder Verunglimpfungen mit inakzeptablen Vokabeln-, durch die Fortführung des zuvor beschriebenen, zu unterstreichen.

Wenn jeder, der sich bisher anders gezeigt hat und sich jetzt der anderen Gruppe

durch sein künftiges, verändertes Verhalten anschließt, wird das die Anzahl der hier ansässigen Persönlichkeiten sowie die Akzeptanz dieses Forums speziell auch durch Außenstehende deutlich steigern, ebenso natürlich unsere gegenseitige Akzeptanz- und zwar  t r o t z  oftmals auch kontroverser Meinungen, Einschätzungen und Sichtweisen, welche von Jedermann-/oder -frau zivilisiert anerkannt und -so vermute ich `mal-, sogar geschätzt werden wird.  Wer will denn nicht als eine solche gelten und akzeptiert werden ?

Die auch dadurch möglicherweise -immer wieder entstehenden-, neuen Einsichten
und Betrachtungsweisen, können durchaus u.U. auch einen gewissen, geistigen Gewinn
darstellen. Bewußtseinserweiterung könnte man es im weitesten Sinne auch nennen !

Es lohnt sich also eminent, sich dem anzuschließen und wäre sicher für uns alle eine
sehr wünschenswerte Bereicherung.

Also, macht mit, nutzen wir diese Chance, ich zähle auf   E  U  C  H  ...........
Wir steigern nicht das Bruttosozialprodukt - sondern das Niveau  ...........

Gruß Schwarzwälder
Antworten
noenough:

weiss jemand

2
18.03.11 20:23
wieviel wamus mein chef gekauft hat?

es müsste so zwischen 10h und 18h horas gewesen sein!

könnt ihr mal gucken!


isch doch richtig oder!?
Antworten
Feldberg58:

Creditor Umfrage über Plan

3
18.03.11 20:28
Washington Mutual Seeks Creditor Poll On Plan
On Monday, Washington Mutual Inc. (WAMUQ), the holding company behind the biggest bank failure in U.S. history, will seek permission to advance its Chapter 11 creditor repayment plan, which would divvy up more than $7 billion among the company's creditors. Washington Mutual, the former parent of Washington Mutual Bank, or WaMu, will ask Judge Mary Walrath of Wilmington, Del., bankruptcy court for approval to begin polling creditors on the plan after she rejected an earlier plan for the company over concerns that it granted overly broad litigation releases

www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2011/03/18/...st+News+-+Text%29
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